Generational Dynamics World View News

[thomasglee]

No. I am not lying. I don't look to Wikipedia (which is usually grossly inaccurate) for my information. You are an idiot.

I read around 400 killed in much more credible news reports than...Wikipedia.

BP, you are truly stupid. And now that you have revealed that your source of information is Wikipedia and the Russian media, it shows you in a true light.

You are a fool. Not only to you trust Putin, but you look to the heavily manipulated Wikipedia for information.

BP, you a Russian stooge. Nothing more. And probably a lot less.

He provided a source he believes you got your info from since you have not provided any source yourself. You’re doing exactly what you accuse him of doing.

Frankly I have no idea which of you (if either) is right, but cmon, if you’re going to refute someone do it with legit sources.

[DT Subscriber]

I have a paid subscription to the Daily Telegraph. I think you and some of your readers might find this worthwhile, John.

Putin's Left-wing apologists are falling for his KGB tactics
The Russian President's manipulative use of Soviet-era deception techniques must be resisted

LIAM FOX
13 December 2021 • 6:00am
Liam Fox
Once again, Vladimir Putin’s gangster regime is sabre rattling and threatening the peace and security of Eastern Europe. Not content with the illegal invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014 or the continued occupation by Russian troops of sovereign Georgian territory, Russia’s President is again trying to use the people of Ukraine as pawns in a wider game.

Putin’s propaganda, which is so often swallowed by Left-wing commentators in the West, has a familiar refrain. “Russian speakers”, a ridiculously wide definition if ever there was one, are threatened in the Caucuses/Ukraine/Baltics and Putin says it is the duty of the Russian state to defend them.

This argument is, on its own, one of the reasons why Russia can never be allowed to be part of the family of democratic and civilised nations. Its core belief is that those who regard themselves as being culturally allied to Moscow should be protected not by the laws and constitutions of the state in which they live, but by interventionist forces dispatched by the Kremlin.

Everything we have seen in recent weeks is part of the KGB playbook based on the concept of “reflexive control”. This doctrine results in a sustained campaign of using carefully selected information to convince opponents to make decisions that they believe are their own but are in fact the desired outcome of the Soviet, now Russian, state. Built out of the Soviet concept of maskirovka, or military deception, the aim is to control the psychological reflex of the opponent by creating a particular model of behaviour, taking advantage of familiar moral arguments and psychological tactics, or exploiting the characteristics and behaviour of political and military leaders.

This remains a widely taught concept in the political and security apparatus of Russia and is a key component in their practice of hybrid warfare which blends conventional warfare, irregular warfare and cyberwarfare with other influencing methods, such as fake news and foreign electoral intervention.

Meddling in the democratic elections of Western states and regular cyber attacks have become a regular part of the modus operandi of Putin’s Kremlin. In 2020, the US government announced that its intelligence services believed Russia was responsible for a cyber-attack that embedded malicious code inside the software systems of governments and companies across the world. In July last year, Britain, the US and Canada accused a Russian hacking group of trying to steal Covid-19 vaccine research from academic and pharmaceutical institutions.

In 2014, ahead of their last illegal action in Ukraine, Russia deployed forces in uniforms without insignia, a policy of plausible deniability which too many Russian apologists in the West were happy to buy into. Even when Malaysia airlines flight 17 was shot down in July of that year, Moscow’s Western sympathisers urged caution in apportioning blame.

Putin’s preposterous arguments in recent days that Russian action may be required to deal with discrimination against Russian speakers in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine fits perfectly into his well-rehearsed tactics. More subtle was his use of language that “we see and know what is happening in Donbas … it certainly looks like genocide”. This was designed to have a clear resonance with Western politicians who have been complaining about the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs, regularly referring to the concept of genocide. By using the same terminology, the Kremlin’s reasoning is that there would be less instinctive opposition to Russian action.

It is time to call Putin out and make clear that we understand the game he is playing. While it has become a regular part of Russian policy to prod and irritate Western powers without actually provoking a military response, it is up to our political leaders to make extremely clear that the price of Russian miscalculation would be high.

Understandably, much domestic focus has been on Christmas parties and the omicron variant. But we must not allow our political priorities to play into Putin’s “reflexive control” approach. There is danger here which we must all appreciate.

Dr Liam Fox MP is a former defence and international trade secretary

[Another Guest]

As for the "illegal annexation" of Crimea, that is a total joke. Crimea was fake-gifted to Ukraine in 1954 while still a Soviet state and the thinking was they'd always be part of the Soviet Union and under Russian control. You could just as well call the entire European occupation of North America as an "illegal annexation", so using terms like that is strictly for the gullible normies. Use your propaganda as you like. It's all BS.

Crimea has been the homeland of the Krim Tatars for over 1000 years, not Russian. They took it over in the late 1700s. That's not ancient history. The Tatars, like the Chechens, were evicted by the Soviets and returned to their homelands decades later. That doesn't make Chechnya and the Crimea "Russian".

Have you seen the vids where Russians run US vehicles off the road in Syria? Russians are not afraid to mix it up with Americans who are more concerned with a gender fluid military that martial prowess.

The last time the Russians clashed with US forces in Syria they suffered hundreds of combat deaths--hundreds. I don't think the American Special Forces suffered a single wounded. Where do you get your information from, RT television?

You are, BP, are an one of Putin's useless idiots.

You are the one posting garbage.

I normally don't respond to the peanut gallery, but this post by an anon "Guest" deserves it to illustrate how liars and phonies operate. In short they obfuscate facts and change the parameters of the argument making a counterargument that doesn't address the initial claim - think 'straw man'.

First, at least cite your story or sources. Since you're too lazy, I'll do it for you. You are referencing the Battle of Khasham:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham

Like you say: "Where do you get your information from, Neo-Con News? "

Your first lie omits the fact that the "hundreds" were a combined Syrian and Russian (Wagner group) contractors, not Russian regular forces. You lie.

The casualty reports vary a lot, but through the noise, possibly around 80-100 Russian contractors were killed.

The facts surrounding the battle paint the picture that your lies don't. One is that if Russia had reported their troops being in the area, the US would not have authorized a strike. Instead they said no troops were there.
You lie.

Your second lie does the sleight-of-hand many liars and phonies use, that is ignoring the original premise and moving goal posts. The Syrian force had no air cover. As I clearly pointed out but you ignored, the West is only effective when they have air superiority. That is exactly what transpired: Bombers came in and laid waste, then helicopter gun ships finished them off. This is not any kind of Russian vs US head-to-head combat operation.
You lie.

If Russians had regular Russian troops in the area supported by air cover, the results would not have been anything like what happened, that is if the US even would engage (they would not have engaged). You also cite US special forces, who didn't do much except call in air strikes.
You lie. And you make my point that the US is only effective when they use air power, or engage a vastly weaker enemy.

The example I cite is of Regular Russian combat troops harassing regular US combat forces, racing and running their MRAPs off the road. That is a head-to-head confrontation that I am talking about, not Special Forces engaging a mix of volunteers, and using overwhelming superior air power.

I will ask one thing open to all: Cite one example since WWII where the US military went head to head against a comparable adversary and handily won. I'll wait... and that will be a long time because it never happened. I will cite one example, that is the Koran War when China got involved. We lost and probably only would have won if we followed MacArthur's insane advice and nuked China.

The vitriol that Burner Prime spews put is definitely Russian. It's always the liars that accuse everyone of lying. It's a way to put someone on the defensive. Yeah, the "guest" has you pegged. Burner also enjoys shitting on America, which is something Russians enjoy doing too because their own country is an absolute shithole. Amazing, Burner's incredibly virulent view of the American military. If Burner isn't Russian, then he is a Serb or Montenegrin. They share the same poisonous nature.

Thomas. This is a not high school debate club. You can easily look up reports of the battle yourself. The guest managed to hit a lot of Russian nerves in his post against Burner. It's obvious to me that Burner can dish it out, but he can't take it.

[John]

** 13-Dec-2021 World View: Providing sources

> He provided a source he believes you got your info from since you
> have not provided any source yourself. You’re doing exactly what
> you accuse him of doing.

> Frankly I have no idea which of you (if either) is right, but
> cmon, if you’re going to refute someone do it with legit
> sources.

Well said!!

If these two people just want to shout at each other, then they're
going at it the right way. But if they want to be credible, then they
should provide credible sources. That's how it's supposed to work.
One person says, "Here are my sources. See? What I'm saying is
right." The other person says, "But you're not completely right,
since your sources are biased. Here are my sources, and they show
that you haven't told the whole story."

[Cool Breeze]

It's quite telling that any time one brings up things that support, or frankly just aren't anti-Russian, he is accused of being a russian troll or bot.

Why are people so butthurt about being honest about what Russia is, and isn't? And why can't someone who accuses others of being a "troll" just make a handle? LOL, you can't make up this crap, it's so ridiculous - it's obvious who the real troll is.

[Burner Prime]

For some delicious and nutritious "sources", here the vid of US and Russian *regular military forces* mixing it up in Syria. As you can see, when the Russians have air support the US is not so tough.

[Burner Prime]

For some delicious and nutritious "sources", here the vid of US and Russian *regular military forces* mixing it up in Syria. As you can see, when the Russians have air support the US is not so tough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH7vKMfD1jA

[Burner Prime]

Still waiting on a response for this...anyone, anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

"I will ask one thing open to all: Cite one example since WWII where the US military went head to head against a comparable adversary and handily won. I'll wait... and that will be a long time because it never happened. I will cite one example, that is the Korean War when China got involved. We lost and probably only would have won if we followed MacArthur's insane advice and nuked China."

Yep, it will be a long time since the US lost 3 out of 4 of the last major wars, even against a much weaker adversary:

Korea = Lost
Vietnam = Lost
Iraq = Won? Did it result in a stable, prosperous nation like Germany/Italy/Japan, post WWII? Nope. Call it an L.
Afghanistan = Lost

The only 'comparable' was against the combined Korean/Chinese forces, and of course we lost. Does that require a "source"?

Even if Russia invaded Ukraine with the intention of re-forming the Soviet Empire, and the US intervened, they would lose in the long run. Why? Because it doesn't pose an existential threat to the US, and the concept of: "no expense spared --- the value of life drops to zero" would not apply. The US would not do everything it takes to completely destroy Russia, control the country, rewrite her constitution, and rebuild the nation afterward. That is what it would take, and that would only happen if Russia posed an existential threat to the US. It won't even apply to an existential threat to a NATO ally. The US would find some way to sue for peace, not nuke Russia into oblivion over Montenegro or North Macedonia.

The only reason the US (and coalition) went into Iraq was because they knew they faced a much weaker enemy, plus the Neo-Cons were in charge. Now they are not, but still trying to whip up hate against the Russians.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-i ... -blackburn

I know that upsets a lot of people who live in fantasy land, but I prefer to face reality.

[John]

** 13-Dec-2021 World View: 'Omicron' sounds like 'I Exterminate CCP' in Mandarin

Two weeks ago, I posted an article about the Greek Alphabet, and how
the World Health Organiztion had skipped the Greek letters "Xi" and
"Nu" in naming Covid variants. Instead, they went directly to
Omicron.

So according to the Taiwan News, "Omicron" in Mandarin sounds like "I
Exterminate CCP."

In the following cartoon, WHO leader Dr. Tedros Adhanom reports to his
"Boss," Xi Jinping, as represented by Winnie the Pooh.

• Omicron sounds like "I exterminate CCP" in Mandarin

**** Source:

-- Taiwan News: 'Omicron' In Mandarin Sounds Like 'I Exterminate CCP'
http://Taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/436808 ... hzBZHbKoV8
(Taiwan News, 7-Dec-2021)

**** Related article:

*** 30-Nov-2021 World View: The Greek Alphabet
viewtopic.php?p=66114#p66114

[Undefeated]

Still waiting on a response for this...anyone, anyone? Beuller? Beuller?

"I will ask one thing open to all: Cite one example since WWII where the US military went head to head against a comparable adversary and handily won. I'll wait... and that will be a long time because it never happened. I will cite one example, that is the Korean War when China got involved. We lost and probably only would have won if we followed MacArthur's insane advice and nuked China."

Yep, it will be a long time since the US lost 3 out of 4 of the last major wars, even against a much weaker adversary:

Korea = Lost
Vietnam = Lost
Iraq = Won? Did it result in a stable, prosperous nation like Germany/Italy/Japan, post WWII? Nope. Call it an L.
Afghanistan = Lost

The only 'comparable' was against the combined Korean/Chinese forces, and of course we lost. Does that require a "source"?

Even if Russia invaded Ukraine with the intention of re-forming the Soviet Empire, and the US intervened, they would lose in the long run. Why? Because it doesn't pose an existential threat to the US, and the concept of: "no expense spared --- the value of life drops to zero" would not apply. The US would not do everything it takes to completely destroy Russia, control the country, rewrite her constitution, and rebuild the nation afterward. That is what it would take, and that would only happen if Russia posed an existential threat to the US. It won't even apply to an existential threat to a NATO ally. The US would find some way to sue for peace, not nuke Russia into oblivion over Montenegro or North Macedonia.

The only reason the US (and coalition) went into Iraq was because they knew they faced a much weaker enemy, plus the Neo-Cons were in charge. Now they are not, but still trying to whip up hate against the Russians.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-i ... -blackburn

I know that upsets a lot of people who live in fantasy land, but I prefer to face reality.

No, you prefer fantasy.
America=bad
Russia=good.
That's pure fantasy. If Russia could have taken us out in WW2, they would have. They didn't even try. You want people here to explain simple past history to you. I'll try to make it simple as I can for an obnoxious teenager like you.

Korea was a draw. Or maybe it was a loss, for the North Koreans. Last I looked, South Korea was still there and had a standard of living a thousand times greater than communist North Korea. I wonder if the North Koreans feel like they won the war?

Vietnam was a defeat,mostly for the South Vietnamese people. They are still trying crawl out of the communist hole dug in the 1970s. When I was there in 2019, the Vietnamese liked Americans.

The Middle East is a disaster, but your beloved Russia has added to the chaos at every turn. Putin funnels as many guns into the ME as he funnels refugees into the West, and you give him a free pass. In case you haven't noticed, Russia has been up to its eyeballs in the ME for decades. I don't see the Arabs or Afghans trying to immigrate to Russia, do you?

The Russians invaded Afghanistan and left it in complete ruins. At least America tried to rebuild it. Biden left it in a mess. I bet they didn't teach you about how the Russians destroyed everything and left nothing behind but an even bigger mess.

What is it that you liked about the Soviet Union: the low standard of living or the freedom of speech?

I don't believe for a second that you are American. You're either a Russian troll or an angry immigrant living in Canada or the US. I have met more than a few Serbs, Mexicans, or Russians that would do anything for their countries except live there. You love to crap on America, but I don't see people lining up to immigrate to your country. You live here, right? If you love Russia, then by all means, move to Russia. No one will miss you.

No wonder Navigator is preparing for defeat. The average poster on this board has already given up. Not me, boys. Not me.