Societal collapse

[Bob Butler]

“That does not imply” does not state anybody said anything. That you claim it does is a lie.

I would like a reference for Biden claiming all Trump supporters are Facist. That doesn’t particularly sound like him. The bigots and religious fanatics may be white supremacists, pushing aspects of European culture, but that does not imply Fascists. If Biden said it, I would disagree with him, but it sounds like another of your lies.

Never lied? Ha ha ha ha ha…

[jdcpapa]

“That does not imply” does not state anybody said anything. That you claim it does is a lie.

I would like a reference for Biden claiming all Trump supporters are Facist. That doesn’t particularly sound like him. The bigots and religious fanatics may be white supremacists, pushing aspects of European culture, but that does not imply Fascists. If Biden said it, I would disagree with him, but it sounds like another of your lies.

Never lied? Ha ha ha ha ha…

WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden lashed out Thursday night at Republicans who have embraced the "Make America Great Again" philosophy central to Donald Trump's presidency, saying it's "like semi-fascism." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-e ... -rcna44953

[Guest]

Neo-nazis do not act like Third Reich Nazis due to lack of opportunity, not will.

How many 'Neo-Nazis' are really Nazis? That's the real question.

’Nazi’, like many words, has many definitions. The classic definition would be from the mid 20th century, but who would be able to prevent people from using the word to describe themselves?

As I see it, each S&H turning addresses some of the worst problems of the culture. Racism has been one of them of late. Whether it is Jews in Germany or many minorities in America, dents are often put in racist behavior. While the KKK was once an active terrorist and criminal organization, the lynchings have stopped. The KKK become more a protesting group, though there are still spree killers. I can sympathize with both statements above. I can anticipate further resolution in this crisis.

Stalinist show trials, gulags, and genocide of whites.

[Bob Butler]

“That does not imply” does not state anybody said anything. That you claim it does is a lie.

I would like a reference for Biden claiming all Trump supporters are Facist. That doesn’t particularly sound like him. The bigots and religious fanatics may be white supremacists, pushing aspects of European culture, but that does not imply Fascists. If Biden said it, I would disagree with him, but it sounds like another of your lies.

Never lied? Ha ha ha ha ha…

WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden lashed out Thursday night at Republicans who have embraced the "Make America Great Again" philosophy central to Donald Trump's presidency, saying it's "like semi-fascism." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-e ... -rcna44953

Only a semi problem then. To the extent that the MAGA crowd is a threat to democracy, that only elections that they win are considered valid, maybe Biden's comment has some merit. I'm still not sure that semi-fascist is the best way to describe MAGA.

[Bob Butler]

As I see it, each S&H turning addresses some of the worst problems of the culture. Racism has been one of them of late. Whether it is Jews in Germany or many minorities in America, dents are often put in racist behavior. While the KKK was once an active terrorist and criminal organization, the lynchings have stopped. The KKK become more a protesting group, though there are still spree killers. I can sympathize with both statements above. I can anticipate further resolution in this crisis.

Stalinist show trials, gulags, and genocide of whites.

I would propose that Russia and China are behind Germany and America in the development of a modern culture. Too Autocratic. Too tempted to try conquest. You can see if Putin is forced to back down in Ukraine, and there is a forced regime change, they too might be forced towards the modern pattern. What will happen with Xi seems less clear.

But, yes, autocratic conquerers face some of the same forces as the racists. The worst aspects of the culture are targeted. What these are vary. With each crisis, they drop some of the tendencies of the Agricultural Age. We'll just have to see which ones.

[Bob Butler]

The recent notes have me considering why I’m against MAGA, and what would make me happier about them. Several points…

At one point they were into election denialism. They would only approve of elections which they won. In the 2022 midterm election, the election denial candidates almost universally lost. Since, the theme has been dropped by many Republicans. If no candidates are pushing it, is it a reason to dump on MAGA anymore?

At one point some were into using violence to impede government functions. The primary example was counting electoral votes on January 6. However, in his various indictments, Trump used his ambiguous calls for violence, not blatantly stepping over the line, but suggesting his people should come and instigate not so peaceful protest. As I mentioned earlier, few responded and those that did did so non violently. The DoJ crusade to punish the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys and other January 6 participants seems to have given MAGA pause. If they go violent again, it would have to be to achieve something big and decisive.

If the bulk of MAGA is no longer into violence, is that another reason to oppose MAGA less?

The Republican base has included the religious fanatics and bigots. They have strong if dubious parts of the culture that have enforced these the past. As they are getting to be in the minority, their ability to impose their will on other cultures, generations, genders and sexual preferences has come into question. During the unravelling, the political financial donations seemed to be worth more than the votes. This has come into question with the crisis. Still, as of right now, the ability of evangelicals, the NRA, those with dislikes of certain minority and similar factions, have taken the opportunity to hate, harass and occasionally spree kill.

That hasn’t changed anywhere near enough. That is a fight that is still being fought. That seems reason enough to look at MAGA and bristle.

Generational Dynamics notes the instinct to hate, oppress and kill those that are different. Strauss and Howe point out that the worst features of a culture are the focus of each crisis. What happens when these two come into conflict, when the instinct to hate, oppress and kill those who are different is the worst feature of culture during a crisis?

At any rate, this concern and understanding is behind a lot of my attitude towards MAGA. I don’t think I will shock many people if I say I am more into S&H than generational dynamics.

If I am correct and that using violence to impede the government and election denial are no longer a dominant feature of MAGA, then Biden’s comment about MAGA being semi-facist is less true. It might have seemed true leading up to the 2020 midterms, but perhaps it is less true today.

But the attempts to impose white culture, to oppress minorities, is still there. In many respects it is being successful.

Yes, I’m the cockeyed optimist. If reproductive freedom, fighting the spree killers, fighting the gerrymandering and other real problems attract votes to the progressive side, we might see federal level bills to stop the cultural aggression. But we will have to see. The turnaround isn’t apt to come until 2025.

***

The other thought is about the interpretation of the 14th Amendment section 3. Where exactly do you draw the line on what is giving aid and comfort to an insurrectionist? Trump has asked his various allies in congress for help in his legal woes. They have compiled, giving aid and comfort to an insurrectionist? Does this disqualify them from serving in congress? There are legitimate ways of contesting an election. Using them shouldn’t be a problem. But as Fani Willis pointed out, the Congress has no legislative reason to interfere with a state’s enforcement of a state’s laws. Attempts to do so could invoke the disqualification clause?

So far the talks of the disqualification clause has rightly centered on Trump, but how many Republicans have provided him aid and comfort? Somebody in a position to act might eventually consider it.

[jdcpapa]

The recent notes have me considering why I’m against MAGA, and what would make me happier about them. Several points…

At one point they were into election denialism. They would only approve of elections which they won. In the 2022 midterm election, the election denial candidates almost universally lost. Since, the theme has been dropped by many Republicans. If no candidates are pushing it, is it a reason to dump on MAGA anymore?

"Since Democrats have coined the ‘election denier’ catchphrase, applying it exclusively to Republicans who cast doubts on election integrity in 2020 and 2022, we’d like to refresh their memory on those in their own party who have denied election results over the years.

They’d like you to forget most of these instances, but fortunately, today’s information technology makes it easy to point out what absolute hypocrites these people are:"

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/hypocri ... n-results/

[jdcpapa]

The recent notes have me considering why I’m against MAGA, and what would make me happier about them. Several points…

At one point some(let's assume MAGA) were into using violence to impede government functions. The primary example was counting electoral votes on January 6. However, in his various indictments (huh?), Trump used his ambiguous calls(in his various indictments?) for violence, not blatantly stepping over the line, but suggesting his people should come and instigate not so peaceful protest. As I mentioned earlier, few (MAGA) responded and those(MAGA) that did did so non violently. The DoJ crusade to punish the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys and other January 6 participants (the some above?) seems to have given MAGA pause. If they(MAGA) go violent again(complete contradiction of the aforementioned?), it would have to be to achieve something big and decisive.

If the bulk of MAGA is no longer into violence(again, this is a contradiction of the aforementioned as MAGA is non violent as stated above?), is that another reason to oppose MAGA less?

There appears to be no reason to oppose MAGA proper at all, according to the statement above.

[Guest cell phone]

The recent notes have me considering why I’m against MAGA, and what would make me happier about them. Several points…

At one point they were into election denialism. They would only approve of elections which they won. In the 2022 midterm election, the election denial candidates almost universally lost. Since, the theme has been dropped by many Republicans. If no candidates are pushing it, is it a reason to dump on MAGA anymore?

"Since Democrats have coined the ‘election denier’ catchphrase, applying it exclusively to Republicans who cast doubts on election integrity in 2020 and 2022, we’d like to refresh their memory on those in their own party who have denied election results over the years.

They’d like you to forget most of these instances, but fortunately, today’s information technology makes it easy to point out what absolute hypocrites these people are:"

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/hypocri ... n-results/

What about the 2000 election? Al Gore told the White House staff they had been robbed. Remember the chads?

[Bob Butler]

"Since Democrats have coined the ‘election denier’ catchphrase, applying it exclusively to Republicans who cast doubts on election integrity in 2020 and 2022, we’d like to refresh their memory on those in their own party who have denied election results over the years.

They’d like you to forget most of these instances, but fortunately, today’s information technology makes it easy to point out what absolute hypocrites these people are:"

While some recent key phrases like election denier, fake elector or insurrection are pretty unique to recent times, this is not the beginning of electoral shenanigans. The Supreme Court stooped Al Gore’s one recount but let Tump’s 59 go on. Hillary had Trump coordinating with Russia and the FBI investigation announced at last minute.

I’m sure the red side has examples as well, but the Political Insider would not let me reference their article without answering questions I don’t like to answer. If there are red examples you’d like to mention or discuss, feel free to post them outside the subscription.

There is much less reason since the 2022 midterms to object to MAGA violence and impeding government function. Biden's 'semi-facist' comment is somewhat dated. I still object to imposing white culture on others and harassing minorities. MAGA is in the minority now. They should learn to deal with it.