Tom Mazanec wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:41 am
Let the government send out propaganda. But let other entities send out their propaganda, even if the government does not like it!
Does it have to be propaganda? Why not just tell then truth? The truth is not subjective. Either that vaccine works or it doesn't. Either the Russians are raping, torturing, and murdering their way around Ukraine, or they are not.
The extremism of people like Zoomer, thomasglee, and cool breeze is bizarre. This is not about censoring anyone. I don't see anyone on this board calling for censorship. I see people jumping to wild conspiracy laden conclusions while defending hellholes like Russian and China. If they love Russia, go there. Every single one of them would be crying to come in five minutes.
The difference between Russia/China and America is that we can vote people out. The Russians and Chinese are stuck with dictators. Putin's idiocy has done the opposite of what he expected it to do: it has reinvigorated the West and the NATO alliance (even if the d-bags in Germany continue to dither). Putin's autocracy works better than democracy shtick has also exploded in his face and exposed Russia for the dysfunctional mafia state it really is.
Liberal democracy has already triumphed. Thanks to Putin.
CYBER WAR China launches ‘raging cyber-espionage battle’ on Russia with new malware campaign, report claims
Tyler Baum
21:01, 27 Apr 2022Updated: 21:21, 27 Apr 2022 https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/18395897/ ... on-russia/
Yahoo News
Russia-Ukraine war latest: Former NATO commander warns that West must gear up for war
Niamh Cavanagh
Niamh Cavanagh·Producer
Thu, April 28, 2022, 8:51 AM·3 min read https://news.yahoo.com/russia-ukraine-w ... 33397.html
Shirreff, formerly a NATO deputy strategic commander for Europe, went on to caution that the Kremlin is likely to respond to this aggressively and that the West should be prepared for a worst-case scenario.
Silenced S wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:13 pm
For any of the trolls who are still trying to falsely claim that our own government isn't evil, or at least not to the same extent as Russia, consider this.
The illegitimate Biden regime's response to Elon Musk buying Twitter earlier this week was to create a Ministry of Truth in America, in the form of one Disinformation Governance Board. You know who else had a Ministry of Truth? Hitler and Stalin.
From what I understand, this is not about policing free speech, but putting out public information to counter deliberate disinformation. This something that was first discussed during the height of the Covid pandemic. A lot of lives were lost because of effective anti-vaxxer campaigns online. I also think they are trying to highlight professional online trolls.
I agree that social media has targeted conservatives online and often, perhaps usually, deletes their comments, which is wrong.
Musk is inconsistent. Maybe he will allow for free speech, or maybe not. Elon Musk was once the darling of the left. Now is has been villianized. Musk has gone after people online himself. Elon musk has a screw loose.
I think an agency is needed to expose disinformation, but it should be done without censorship. I think the government plans to offer rebuttals.
WASHINGTON (AP) — A majority of U.S. adults say misinformation around Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a major problem, and they largely fault the Russian government for spreading those falsehoods.
A new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research shows 61% of people in the United States say the spread of misinformation about the war is a major problem, with only 7% saying it’s not a problem. Older adults were more likely to identify the wartime misinformation as an issue, with 44% of those under 30 calling it a problem, compared with 65% of those 30 or older.
Misleading social media posts, fake pictures or videos and propagandized headlines have proliferated on websites, from TikTok to Facebook, since Russia’s assault on Ukraine began in February. In recent weeks, Russian state media and social media accounts have operated in lockstep to push tweets, TV reports and posts that claim photos of bombed buildings and bodies across Ukraine have been staged or faked. Even well-meaning, everyday social media users have fallen victim to the falsehoods, accidentally sharing or liking posts and images that turned out to be inaccurate.
About three-quarters of the American public fault the Russian government for advancing misinformation around the war, while many also blame social media users, tech companies and the news media. Far fewer place a great deal of blame on the Ukrainian or U.S. governments.
Russia’s falsehoods about the war are finding millions of eyeballs across social media and in state-media reports. Earlier this month, for example, a chorus of Kremlin media reports, Facebook pages, Twitter accounts and Telegram channels tried to refute photographs and satellite images of bodies left by Russian soldiers in the streets of Bucha, Ukraine, by calling the images a “hoax.”
“Russia’s reach is broad,” said Darren Linvill, a Clemson University professor who studies disinformation. “They have a lot of different outlets that they use — everything from state media, in Russian, English and especially Spanish.”
Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:31 pm
by TUG
Zoomer go Brr wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:18 am
Guest wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:41 pm
Zoomer go Brr wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:38 am
And here is the boomer hyperbole and Cold War fear coming out - Russia isn’t going to invade western Europe, they’re anemic. They can’t even take Ukraine, why would they ever invade a NATO country? Are you seriously that delusional? This is what I’m talking about with the slurping up bullshit.
Would I fight for Ukraine? No. Would I fight for the US? Yes.
Russia can't take you Ukraine because of the billions of dollars of support they are getting from us and others. Ukraine hasn't been abandoned. Just the opposite of what you have demanding and spewing about.
P.S. I still think you are Serbian or Russian.
So you enjoy funding foreign bullshit but not helping your own citizens, got it. You think I’m Serbian or Russian because you’re stuck in the 90’s. Must’ve really affected you when your hero Hillary Clinton under sniper fire by the Serbs in Bosnia. I still think you’re a pathetic out of touch wretch who is hopelessly stuck in the past.
Message to all the Russian Trolls on here.
Run! And run as fast as you can!
Before Putin conscripts you, into his Cannon Fodder Army.
Get away...into the countryside. Avoid the cities.
Change your identities and leave now.
It's over for you, if you stay.
Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:25 pm
by John
** 30-Apr-2022 World View: Personal attacks
thomasglee wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:56 am
> John, I believe you misunderstand me. As I get older, I get
> wiser, and I've realized that our government and our media are as
> corrupt as they come. It's not the blatant corruption as in Asia,
> etc., but the results are the same. The USA is just better at
> disguising it. I do not support Putin or his war, but I do not
> buy into everything our media and our "elites" tell us. I've been
> in combat, and after the service, I traveled the world on
> business. I'm well-read, well-traveled, and educated. So my
> opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and theories are not created in a
> vacuum of ignorance or bliss but on real-life experiences,
> consumption of varying opinions, and, as often as possible -
> facts. Unfortunately, over the past year or so, the dialogue here
> has become dominated by childish, name-calling, impish newcomers
> who have provided very little substance to the discussions. You
> can see it here in this thread as an example.
> As my faith grows, my reliance on man to solve the world's
> problems diminishes. I understand we are on a path that we do not
> control. I prefer no war at all, period. Yet, at the same time, I
> realize we live in a fallen world, so war and death are
> inevitable. I'm just not going to choose the lesser of two evils
> because then I'm still choosing evil. Instead, I will seek my
> solace and my safety in my faith.
> I've enjoyed this site over the last decade-plus, but I prefer to
> disengage, as I do not like nor want to get dragged into ignorant
> debates. I sometimes fail and will respond when I shouldn't or
> let my human emotions override my temperance and that I do not
> like.
> Thank you for the site; I often tell friends about your work and
> recommend they follow the site.
> All the best,
I've been online since the mid-1980s. When I first started out, I
said a lot of stupid things and was called a lot of stupid names. It
was very humiliating. But over the years I've been in lots of forums,
and I've learned various techniques for dealing with personal attacks.
This is a big subject all by itself, but it has nothing to do with
this forum. There are lots of ways to deal with personal attacks --
ignoring them, counterattacking, etc. If you're going to be online in
any sort of open forum, then you have to learn to deal with that.
I can help you by deleting posts that provide nothing, but simply
call you names. I've started doing that already, but I can do more.
If you'd like, we can set up a special thread just for you, and
establish rules about how it's managed. That's a lot of work, but
it's doable, if that would help.
I should add that this issue has nothing to do with "guests." For
example, CB is more obnoxious that most guests, and he's registered.
But the personal attacks are quite understandable, because underneath
them are real differences in opinion. Everyone in the world now
believes or suspects that we're headed for WW III, possibly this year,
or that WW III has already started, and everyone wants someone to
blame. This raises real emotions, and so there are personal attacks.
If you look in the news thread, for example, you'll see lots of name
calling, but underneath it all are real differences of opinion that
are understandable, but not always well expressed. And it's these
real differences of opinion that make this forum valuable.
I agree with you about this US government. The Biden family is
nothing short of an international crime family, the worst in my
lifetime, traitors to America. Joe Biden is a cognitive basket case,
a hate-filled racist and white supremacist, supporting policies that
kill thousands of blacks on the street, as happened when he was a
child with the KKK. Biden's son is an international criminal, and
also a bigoted racist, as is clear from his laptop from hell. Kamala
Harris is an incompetent idiot, who is an embarassment to blacks and
women everywhere. Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is
the sleaziest piece of garbage I've ever seen, even worse than Adam
Schiff, which I didn't believe would be possible. And now Mayorkas
has created an Orwellian Ministry of Truth headed by a young girl, a
far-left pro-socialist activist, who looks like a complete idiot
singing Mary Poppins songs. It's almost too ridiculous and laughable
to believe possible.
And so you could claim that America is just as bad as Russia, and many
would agree with you, including some people on this forum. But
there's a big difference. Russia is a corrupt kleptocracy from top to
bottom, and continues in that way for decades or even centuries.
America is not. The massive corruption occurring now in America
rarely lasts more than one election cycle.
Each day I become increasingly amazed by the brilliance of the US
Constitution. Thanks to the separation of powers, the court system,
the Bill of Rights, and the federal system, the Democrat's
Stalinist/Fascist regime is falling apart.
Democrats are in a state of panic over the coming elections.
Democrats are in a state of panic over Elon Musk's acquisition of
Twitter.
You say that the media are as corrupt as the Bidens. That's true, but
it's not monolithic. Obvious counterexamples are Fox News, New York
Post, Washington Times, The Federalist, London Daily Mail, and
ZeroHedge. And maybe Twitter before too much longer. None of this is
possible in Russia at this time.
Many people believe that this nation and the US Constitution were
inspired by God, and you should think about that.
It's worthwhile listening to Kate Smith's wonderful rendition of
Irving Berlin's God Bless America, which cheered Americans during the
depths of World War II. This performance is highly relevant still
today.
Excellent post John! A perspective that's badly needed in this difficult time.
Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:16 pm
by Navigator
Yes, very good post from John.
I can understand Thomas' perspective. Many of my combat vet friends feel the same way. After all, they were lied to about the wars (this could apply to Vietnam as well as Iraq/Afghanistan). They were lied to about what the objectives were, who the enemy was, about the progress (or utter lack thereof) and then saw the whole endeavor collapse while their friends were maimed and died.
So, frankly, they have seen American leadership at its worst. And many believe that the only way it could be that bad is that there is some kind of underlying conspiracy to make it so to cover some despicable objective (such as turn all American citizens into slaves/serfs).
I personally don't believe that. I think that bureaucrats (in all branches of government) are out only for themselves, and could care less what the actual effect of their policies are, other than they will do whatever it takes to stay in power and gain more power. As that allows them (ala the Bidens) to enrich themselves. Most of these people are actually incompetent or only marginally so, and run things on a cronyism system that protects them and allows them to expand bureaucracy (expanding their power and their paychecks) but does little to nothing to improve services to the public they are supposed to be serving (but instead are fleecing).
So, yes, many areas/aspects of American government are abysmal. But they do pale in comparison to what is going on in Russia/China.
For example, in the USA, we still have freedom of religion. In China, pictures of Christ were replaced with pictures of Xi.
In America, we can actually vote people out of office, yet it is amazing to me how few incumbents are voted out. Few seem to get educated on issues and options, and then make informed choices. This is the Achilles heel of democracy.
Russia and China are dictatorships. Putin and Xi are monsters and will stop at almost nothing to force their will on others who want to stay out of their reach.
Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:55 pm
by thomasglee
John wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:25 pm** 30-Apr-2022 World View: Personal attacks
thomasglee wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:56 am
> John, I believe you misunderstand me. As I get older, I get
> wiser, and I've realized that our government and our media are as
> corrupt as they come. It's not the blatant corruption as in Asia,
> etc., but the results are the same. The USA is just better at
> disguising it. I do not support Putin or his war, but I do not
> buy into everything our media and our "elites" tell us. I've been
> in combat, and after the service, I traveled the world on
> business. I'm well-read, well-traveled, and educated. So my
> opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and theories are not created in a
> vacuum of ignorance or bliss but on real-life experiences,
> consumption of varying opinions, and, as often as possible -
> facts. Unfortunately, over the past year or so, the dialogue here
> has become dominated by childish, name-calling, impish newcomers
> who have provided very little substance to the discussions. You
> can see it here in this thread as an example.
> As my faith grows, my reliance on man to solve the world's
> problems diminishes. I understand we are on a path that we do not
> control. I prefer no war at all, period. Yet, at the same time, I
> realize we live in a fallen world, so war and death are
> inevitable. I'm just not going to choose the lesser of two evils
> because then I'm still choosing evil. Instead, I will seek my
> solace and my safety in my faith.
> I've enjoyed this site over the last decade-plus, but I prefer to
> disengage, as I do not like nor want to get dragged into ignorant
> debates. I sometimes fail and will respond when I shouldn't or
> let my human emotions override my temperance and that I do not
> like.
> Thank you for the site; I often tell friends about your work and
> recommend they follow the site.
> All the best,
I've been online since the mid-1980s. When I first started out, I
said a lot of stupid things and was called a lot of stupid names. It
was very humiliating. But over the years I've been in lots of forums,
and I've learned various techniques for dealing with personal attacks.
This is a big subject all by itself, but it has nothing to do with
this forum. There are lots of ways to deal with personal attacks --
ignoring them, counterattacking, etc. If you're going to be online in
any sort of open forum, then you have to learn to deal with that.
I can help you by deleting posts that provide nothing, but simply
call you names. I've started doing that already, but I can do more.
If you'd like, we can set up a special thread just for you, and
establish rules about how it's managed. That's a lot of work, but
it's doable, if that would help.
I should add that this issue has nothing to do with "guests." For
example, CB is more obnoxious that most guests, and he's registered.
But the personal attacks are quite understandable, because underneath
them are real differences in opinion. Everyone in the world now
believes or suspects that we're headed for WW III, possibly this year,
or that WW III has already started, and everyone wants someone to
blame. This raises real emotions, and so there are personal attacks.
If you look in the news thread, for example, you'll see lots of name
calling, but underneath it all are real differences of opinion that
are understandable, but not always well expressed. And it's these
real differences of opinion that make this forum valuable.
I agree with you about this US government. The Biden family is
nothing short of an international crime family, the worst in my
lifetime, traitors to America. Joe Biden is a cognitive basket case,
a hate-filled racist and white supremacist, supporting policies that
kill thousands of blacks on the street, as happened when he was a
child with the KKK. Biden's son is an international criminal, and
also a bigoted racist, as is clear from his laptop from hell. Kamala
Harris is an incompetent idiot, who is an embarassment to blacks and
women everywhere. Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is
the sleaziest piece of garbage I've ever seen, even worse than Adam
Schiff, which I didn't believe would be possible. And now Mayorkas
has created an Orwellian Ministry of Truth headed by a young girl, a
far-left pro-socialist activist, who looks like a complete idiot
singing Mary Poppins songs. It's almost too ridiculous and laughable
to believe possible.
And so you could claim that America is just as bad as Russia, and many
would agree with you, including some people on this forum. But
there's a big difference. Russia is a corrupt kleptocracy from top to
bottom, and continues in that way for decades or even centuries.
America is not. The massive corruption occurring now in America
rarely lasts more than one election cycle.
Each day I become increasingly amazed by the brilliance of the US
Constitution. Thanks to the separation of powers, the court system,
the Bill of Rights, and the federal system, the Democrat's
Stalinist/Fascist regime is falling apart.
Democrats are in a state of panic over the coming elections.
Democrats are in a state of panic over Elon Musk's acquisition of
Twitter.
You say that the media are as corrupt as the Bidens. That's true, but
it's not monolithic. Obvious counterexamples are Fox News, New York
Post, Washington Times, The Federalist, London Daily Mail, and
ZeroHedge. And maybe Twitter before too much longer. None of this is
possible in Russia at this time.
Many people believe that this nation and the US Constitution were
inspired by God, and you should think about that.
It's worthwhile listening to Kate Smith's wonderful rendition of
Irving Berlin's God Bless America, which cheered Americans during the
depths of World War II. This performance is highly relevant still
today.
All good points John. For the most part, I do just ignore the trolls (who call everyone else trolls). The only reason I would like to see a system implemented that would require registration is because I am confident there is at least one here who posts as Guest, Guest, and another ID, just to try and give the impression he has support from others. Having said that, for the most part, I do ignore the personal attacks.
Navigator also made some good points and is on target with what drives my distrust of our government. It wasn't only my time in service, but my time working in defense electronics that also exposed me to corruption within our system and incompetence.
Re: Generational Dynamics World View News
Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:34 pm
by jmparret
Thomas,
Glad you are staying, the trolls do get tiring. I do not post much but am sure it would be blasted.
I do like what you post and many of the others that are picked on.
As far as i can see most of the Ukraine Russia thing is mostly fake news.