13-May-13 WV-Pope Francis canonizes 800 Otranto 'martyrs'

[John]

13-May-13 World View -- Pope Francis canonizes 800 Otranto 'martyrs' of Ottoman army


Millions of Chinese internet users vow not to commit suicide

** 13-May-13 World View -- Pope Francis canonizes 800 Otranto 'martyrs' of Ottoman army
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/pg/ ... tm#e130513



Contents:
Pope Francis canonizes 800 Otranto 'martyrs' of Ottoman army
Taiwan sends warships into South China Sea near Philippines
Suicide rates increasing substantially among Boomers
Millions of Chinese internet users vow not to commit suicide


Keys:
Generational Dynamics, Pope Francis, Otranto, Sultan Mehmet II,
Constantinople, Istanbul, Pope Benedict XVI,
South China Sea, Taiwan, Philippines, suicide rates,
China, Yuan Liya

[vincecate]

The rumors are that she was gang-raped by security guards and thrown off a high balcony, but police ruled the death a homicide. Angry protesters demanded an investigation, but they were quickly silenced by hordes of police. Deaths by "forced suicide" are thought to be quite common in China, as police use the technique to silence activists.

I think you mean "ruled the death a suicide".

[John]

Thanks for the correction.

[Arnould]

About suicides of ruined people having no hope anymore. I dream that those people first go and execute the one(s) they feel are responsible for their hopelessness. OK, could be me... and what? I feel that the world could be a better place if those who rule had a little more fear for their lives.

Arnould, France

[John]

> About suicides of ruined people having no hope anymore. I dream
> that those people first go and execute the one(s) they feel are
> responsible for their hopelessness. OK, could be me... and what? I
> feel that the world could be a better place if those who rule had
> a little more fear for their lives.

You're stating the philosophy of a suicide bomber. The problem is
that someone who's desperate enough to commit suicide may choose a
target whom you consider to be a "good guy," rather than a "bad guy."
I would actually go in the other direction and say that there's an
ethics to suicide of not involving other people -- e.g., don't step in
front of a truck, because you'll ruin the truck driver's life forever.

John

[Reality Check]

...

The citizens of Otranto, with the tales of horror of the fall of Constantinople still fresh in their minds, realized that they were vastly outnumbered, and surrendered. According to Catholic accounts, the Ottomans segregated the women and children, who became slaves, from the men. Some 800 men were ordered to convert to Islam. They refused, and proclaimed that they would die for Christ. On August 14, 1480, the men were beaten and decapitated, one by one, in full view of the others, and then put into a mass grave. According to Catholic history, not only did they become martyrs, but their actions were a miracle, because they also saved Rome from capture by the Ottomans, since they forced a delay that gave the Italian troops in Rome time to prepare. Mehmet the Conqueror died on May 3, 1481, and is thought to have been poisoned.

Not surprisingly, parts of the Catholic accounts are disputed by Muslim scholars, who describe the actions of Mehmet much more charitably, both in Otranto and in Constantinople. Of significance today is that Muslims view this mass canonization as a new anti-Islam attack by the Catholics.

...

What part of the account do Muslim scholars dispute ?

That the city was attacked ?

That the city surrendered ?

That the Muslims were somehow justified in be-heading the the men because their religion offended Muslims ?

Details mater.

Putting anonymous scholars with undisclosed narratives on the same footing as the formal Beatification process is unprofessional and wrong, on so many levels.

[Reality Check]

> About suicides of ruined people having no hope anymore. I dream
> that those people first go and execute the one(s) they feel are
> responsible for their hopelessness. OK, could be me... and what? I
> feel that the world could be a better place if those who rule had
> a little more fear for their lives.

You're stating the philosophy of a suicide bomber. The problem is
that someone who's desperate enough to commit suicide may choose a
target whom you consider to be a "good guy," rather than a "bad guy."
I would actually go in the other direction and say that there's an
ethics to suicide of not involving other people -- e.g., don't step in
front of a truck, because you'll ruin the truck driver's life forever.

John

The use of suicide bombers is no different than a predication that every single nuclear weapon will be used.

The same thought process that would rationalize the military use of every single nuclear weapon, would also rationalize the use of suicide bombers.